Hello all, I been mining from back in the good old days of ETH I’m ready to mine BTC on a node and have 4 small miners ready to mine at Ocean days from setting it up. Then now we have the CL vs LND but can only mine on Ocean with CL now what do I install? Once I get Start9 running I will install Knots then what direction should I go? What app’s do I need installed? I’m use to plugin in at main pools but I like bucking the big guy’s with my own node. I have watched Paul’s set up videos but the CL thing has put a stop to the flow.
Thanks
Wayne
Wayne,
Why has Core Lightning stopped the work flow? What is it that you need clarification on about Core Lighting? Are your miners SHA 256 ASIC’s?
Once I get Start9 running I will install Knots then what direction should I go?
You need Knots, Datum and CL… all of which are in his setup video. You could also use LND and Ride The Lightning as additional tools. Although currently OCEAN payouts requires Core Lighting LND and RTL can act as additional tools for you to manage liquidity on your lightning channels much more efficiently than Core Lightning. Mempool and electrs are also good to have.
I’m sure Paul will be along to guide you but I thought I’d just ask a few questions for clarity
On the Start9 OS, you can install both CLN and LND. For mining, you need CLN. If you already have LND, then the setup is fairly simple.
- Install CLN
- Open a public channel from your LND node to your CLN node
- Follow the instructions on Ocean for configuring the Bolt12 Offer
If you do not have LND installed already, then you have a couple of routes. The simplest setup:
- Install CLN
- Open a public channel with ACINQ for 500,000 sats
- Once active, send most of the sats back to cold storage via Boltz.exchange
- Follow the instructions on Ocean for configuring the Bolt12 Offer
If you plan to use Lightning in the future for payments as well, then a bit more complicated setup that will be more flexible in the future:
- Install LND
- Open public channels with various well-connected nodes (a simple one to start with is ACINQ for 500,000 sats)
- Move some of the sats back to cold storage via Boltz.exchange (leaving however much outbound you want on Lightning for everyday use)
- Install CLN
- Open a publich channel from your LND node to your CLN node
- Follow the instructions on Ocean for configuring the Bolt12 Offer
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So if I just install Core lighting to use mainly for mining it’s not a real problem running it? I seen u were going to uninstall yours because of problems.
No, I am not uninstalling it. I am just migrating all of the channels over to LND, leaving the one public channel from LND to CLN. My goal is the third scenario that I outlined above – except I didn’t start there, so it is a lot of work to migrate to that setup versus starting out that way in the first place.
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To explain – the problem with CLN is that it has a routing problem (it is fine for receiving payments, and for sending to nodes you have a channel with, but for routing through multiple nodes it sucks). LND does not have that problem.
What the above setup allows you to do is to accumulate mining rewards, which come in through the channels on your LND node, pass through the channel to your CLN node, and accumulate there. Once the CLN side of that channel starts to fill up, you can simply free up the outbound liquidity again by creating an invoice on your LND node, and paying it to yourself from your CLN node. Rinse and repeat. For everything else lightning, use LND.
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Hello Paul
I keep getting a fail just trying to use a invoice to send 4000 sats from my channel to open a out bound payment to allow me to open the node. Any thoughts how to get it done, is it just time of day traffic? It’s all about routing time out.
Wayne
Is this a CLN or LND node? Also, what channels do you have with outbound liquidity?
It’s core lighting so I can mine, I only have one channel with ur Paulscode LND node.
Paul is typing as I respond here. @Fletcher and I have channels setup between us through LND so that we can accept payments from OCEAN. Why not go that route too…CL is nice but as Paul has said…it’s kinda broken. There is a thread here where Paul helped us figure it out. Maybe he can point it out to you. I’d be happy to open a small channel with you if need be…
Now…Paul’s response…
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Unfortunately, the problem is that the CLN UI in StartOS does not provide an interface to specify a max fee rate (among other more fundamental routing issues that CLN has). This clashes with the fact that I have to set the fee rate much higher on my node than the default, so that I can keep the minimum channel size small to allow folks new to Lightning to start small while experimenting. Unfortunately, I recently had to bump up the routing fee rate on my node again because I made an under-estimation in my calculations, and I have been losing money as a result, due to numerous small chunks of outbound liquidity spread across 50+ users who open just one single channel with me. I’m fine with that (that is what I want to have my node for), but it prevents circular rebalance and requires base layer fees to swap out liquidity. That, in turn, means I have to charge higher routing fees, which means users with Core Lightning are going to have an even worse experience when I am their only node they are connected with.
I have a video planned on this (it’s just been really hectic the last few weeks), but as Greg alluded to, I think your best setup is to follow the strategy that I have moved to. In this setup, you will run both CLN and LND, use CLN for mining payouts, and use LND as your primary node. What you do is open a public channel from your LND node back to your CLN node for, say, 60,000 sats. This channel should be the one and only channel on your CLN node, at it will be the route through which your mining rewards will flow in.
On your LND node, open a second public channel with ACINQ for at least 500,000 sats, and then move most of that back to cold storage via bolts.exchange. What this does is establishes LND as your connection to the larger Lightning network, since it is far more reliable, and has a lot more control over fees, which channel you are paying from, circular rebalancing, and so-on.
Mining payouts will come in over the ACINQ channel on your LND node, and from there will be forwarded on to your CLN node over the channel you have with it. When that channel starts to fill up on the CLN side, simply create an invoice from your LND node, and pay it to yourself from the CLN node. Rinse and repeat. After many itterations of this (and depending on what else you use your LND node for), your larger channel with ACINQ may eventually over time start to fill up. If it does, send it on to cold storage via bolts.exchange to free up inbound liquidity once again.
I found that MegaLith LSP is a better channel and re-balancing seem to work. I cannot re-balance from ACINQ at all. It also appears that MegaLith LSP is balancing there channel automatically. It is always close to 1 for me. It does move around but usually comes back to 8 or 1 daily. Something to think about.
I’ve not had any problems with ACINQ myself. What other channel were you rebalancing it against?
I guess I need to learn to dance…hehehe. So can I start a LND node right now and won’t make any problems with both running?
Just my start9 and @Fletcher channel. When I re-balance between him and myself ACINQ shows no route. As you can see from pic ACINQ is very very lopsided. Its not and issue for me since Megalith works perfectly.
The only reason I added ACINQ is to get the node to be recognized. At first I didn’t add a channel but did it later…but I don’t think it is serving the purpose we intended it to.
But I don’t wanna confuse @oldguy because I know how confusing it was for this old guy 
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LND and Ride The Lightning is what you need. Both CL and LND can run together
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Sure, you can run both without any problems.
No problems with using MegaLith LSP or any other nodes, BTW (you can even use mine, but the fee rate is currently up to 1%, which is quite high). Typically, the best nodes also require much larger channels (my most reliable one has been with Wallet of Satoshi, which has a minimum channel capacity of 5 million sats). MagaLith LSP could be a gem.
@oldguy, for initial setup, I would not go too crazy with the channels. Just have two. A smallish one from your LND node back to your CLN node. And a larger one from your LND node to another well-connected node. Start there and get more comfortable with Lightning before you start opening up more channels and learning about rebalancing.
@Greg, WRT the balancing betwen ACINQ and Fletcher’s node, that is probably due to liquidity issues on Fletcher’s node more than anything. But if MegaLith LSP gets you around those, then go with them. Makes your live easier.
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So Paul is it because I’m moving a small amount? if I move like 9000 sat would it work? Not like 9000 is big.
No, the problem is that the fee rate (1% on my node, plus whatever the other nodes in the route are charging) is higher than the default max fee rate on your CLN node. And unfortunately, StartOS does not expose any simple mechanism to increase the max fee rate when you are paying an invoice.
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Ok Alias, min and max channel size? Is there a fee I need to set?